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Twentieth Virtual Symposium on “Cravings/Addictions/Obsessions”: The Swinging Buddhist
Twentieth Virtual Symposium on “Cravings/Addictions/Obsessions”: The Swinging Buddhist This blog entry is part of the twentieth virtual symposium, an informal collection of bloggers who – purely for the hell of it – voted for a single topic (“Cravings/Addictions/Obsessions”) and agreed, on or about June 5, to post their interpretations of that topic. A continually updated list of participants can be found here: Participants List For the Twentieth Virtual Symposium CravingsAddictionsObsessions The Devil, it is said, is capable of quoting Scripture for his own purpose. But what to make of a religious tradition which does not embrace demonic personifications of the profane… yet whose adherents raise the question of whether or not swinging is within the realm of permissible behavior? “Buddhism’s ‘Sexual Misconduct’ Defined,” a post on the Wisdom Quarterly: American Buddhist Journal blog, does not directly address swinging, although readers did in the comment section. The post itself does talk about craving being a barrier to achieving a noble life. To quote the authors, “Sexual misconduct or ‘wrong sensual indulgence” is karmically harmful behavior…. This is because craving arises, and one habitually tries to satisfy it in an ultimately unsatisfactory manner.” Two questions immediately jump out: First, what exactly is sexual misconduct? And second, does simply abstaining from an activity eliminate the craving? First question first. For the most part, the post notes that “‘sexual misconduct’ has been hastily defined … based on Judeo-Christian thinking as “fornication and adultery.” But the Buddha did not teach that householders should abstain from sex, nor did he proclaim that they should engage in sex only in the context of marriage as many Christian sects teach. “It is mistaken and off-putting to confuse the Puritanical teachings of other religions with the ethical universals taught by the Buddha. “Consenting individuals … are free to engage in and enjoy sex without being admonished. What is important is that in so doing they are neither being harmed nor causing harm to others.” Rock the bed, you beautiful-bellied bastard! As for the second question – the one about whether not indulging in pleasure eliminates the – ahem – craving, addiction, or obsession… in the comments section, poster Russell notes “…sexual misconduct doesn't include things such as Polyamory or Swinging, so long as both partners in the marriage and happy with it and everyone is consenting. “Misconduct happens when lies are told or bullying happens. So you can go to a Swingers party with your partner, you can both have multiple sexual partners and Sexual Misconduct will not happen” Heh. So it seems the path to Buddhist enlightenment is that if one must be a slut, one should be an ethical slut, right? Works for me. But it didn’t apparently work for a few anonymous posters. Here’s a sampling of their arguments: “Having multiple sexual partners would lead one to overdevelopment of the sensual self. If the goal of Buddhism is to eliminate craving, we can see where sex would be a problem. One does not stop craving sex by having it. “[One’s] desire would have to be rather high if one is seeking out other partners for sexual pleasure. Fetishes and sexual practices come from a need to feel ‘more’ sexual excitement, more pleasure. Thus orgies and many other sexual activities fall into the realm of earthly lust. Committing these activities keeps one tied down in kama.” Editor’s note: Don’t confuse kama with karma. Kama refers to the pleasures of the senses. Think Kama Sutra. Back to the naysayers: Write another anonymous arguer: “[W]hile technically an orgy with consenting parties wouldn’t be sexual misconduct you must ask yourself.... is this action creating craving? Does this action come from craving?” Well, you know what they say – “Never provoke a bodhisattva to rage.” Okay, virtually nobody says that – bodhisattvas are enlightened people who, despite reaching nirvana through study, choose not to do so to serve as earthy examples to others. They’re generally pretty chill folks. But a few of these enlightened folks weighed in with pro-swinging views. To quote yet another anonymous poster (with his or her grammar left intact): “Swinging and polyamory are against ‘the Way’? Bullshit. They're just things people do that yr uncomfortable with, so therefore ‘those’ people have too much desire, they couldn't be as ‘enlightened’ as you, surely not..... “The idea that orgiastic sex and spirituality are mutually exclusive is almost laughable when you consider that there are respectable spiritual traditions that make it an integral part of their ritual and worship, even within Buddhism, although usually in symbolic form. “You say that such a lifestyle is indicative of extreme craving, but thats just judgement. Swingers are just being open and honest with their partners and the world about their sexuality. This is likely to lead to REDUCED suffering. Who's doing more to overcome their egoic desires, the renunciate who swears off all sex to meditate for years, or the orgiast who overcomes jealousy and monogamy to please their partner? Yr just pissed that someone may be having group sex and realizing the Infinite at the same time, while you spent 20 years in a cave.” The last word on the blog went to Stay True, who is indeed a True Believer: “People assume that multiple partners = more attachment/more craving, but I have experienced the opposite... Craving/Posessiveness/Attachment is common in monogamous relationships… Neither swinging nor not swinging is the way... Attachment to either is probably not going to serve”. In short, if you meet the Buddha on the road, blow him. Provided he reciprocates, of course… Stop in, read, and offer comments at my "swinging as seen in the media" blog, "Confessions of a Lifestyle Man" humorlife, which is also the home of the monthly virtual symposium. New post: The Virtual Symposium Returns Lets Pick A Topic |
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You've written this post for me. Even if you didn't. The Buddha taught "all things on moderation". And of course, moderation is subjective, and open to debate. One man's excess is another man's moderation. In an interesting non sequitur, I met a guy years ago who was trying to sell Jesus to me. He had pamphlets. I told him I was a Buddhist, and figured that would shut him up. Of course I figured wrong. Only a silver bullet or a wooden stake shuts those fuckers up. Garlic will only slow them down, and I had a ham sandwich that day. He said to me: "Well, I'd rather believe what Jesus says than some fat sucker." You know I'm not making this up, because you can't make this shit up. Nobody could be that dumb, right? I told him to work on his sales pitch and come back in a couple of years. Become a member now and get a free tote bag.
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I reckon your salesman wasn't a huge fan of President Taft either... I choose to interpret "moderation" in the sense of presiding over something. So what the Buddha was REALLY advocating was organizing and watching orgies, before joining in. I dare anyone to disagree with me -- and come up with ecumenical proof. Stop in, read, and offer comments at my "swinging as seen in the media" blog, "Confessions of a Lifestyle Man" humorlife, which is also the home of the monthly virtual symposium. New post: The Virtual Symposium Returns Lets Pick A Topic
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My take is that restricting sex, no matter the religion, is all about control. The more open-minded people are, the less likely they'll be mindless followers and more likely to ask questions--questions that are inconvenient and hard to answer. Although I'm not actively practicing, I'm a Buddhist myself. Basically, gender and orientation is irrelevant in Buddhism. All are equal in the eyes of the Buddha. There's nothing wrong with gaining sexual pleasure, as long as those involved are in agreement. It just comes down to using your common sense (which is a rare commodity these days). If you're not physically or emotionally hurting anybody, then no harm done.
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I think the best point that was made in this post was about the acceptability of behavior between two or more consenting adults who are not causing harm to anyone. Sapiosexual is a term that I learned from this site, followed only by the ethical slut. I also agree with JN's assertion that restricting sexual activity, in any form by any religion or spirituality, is a form of control. Once you start convincing people that they must fight their inner desires, you own them. Who is less harmful? The person that hides their desires in a dark room where they seethe and simmer about it, or the person that embraces their desires and understands them? I'm sure there's plenty of anecdotal historical evidence to back up this claim, I'm just too lazy and disinterested to actually gather the proof. Love the topic and your take. Satyr in Sheep's Skin Peruse my many stories at Satyr39s Storybook Corner or my Renaissance Era BDSM fantasy story at Serial Story Reinport39s Crowning Index.
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I'm a Buddhist now!
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Bonjour Humorlife Dans ma prime jeunesse . Quand nous n'avions pas encore inventé les dieux . Nous baisions comme des bonobos . Nous vénérions les femmes qui nous donnaient des enfants en nous demandant comment elles avaient fait . ♥ Bisou ♥ Poton ♥ Annie ♥ Hello Humorlife In my youth, when we had not yet invented the gods we fucked like bonobos, we venerate women who gave us kids asking us how they had done. ♥ Kiss ♥ Annie ♥
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My take is that restricting sex, no matter the religion, is all about control. The more open-minded people are, the less likely they'll be mindless followers and more likely to ask questions--questions that are inconvenient and hard to answer. Although I'm not actively practicing, I'm a Buddhist myself. Basically, gender and orientation is irrelevant in Buddhism. All are equal in the eyes of the Buddha. There's nothing wrong with gaining sexual pleasure, as long as those involved are in agreement. It just comes down to using your common sense (which is a rare commodity these days). If you're not physically or emotionally hurting anybody, then no harm done. So all I can say is "Amen," or whatever the Buddhist equivalent is. Stop in, read, and offer comments at my "swinging as seen in the media" blog, "Confessions of a Lifestyle Man" humorlife, which is also the home of the monthly virtual symposium. New post: The Virtual Symposium Returns Lets Pick A Topic
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I think the best point that was made in this post was about the acceptability of behavior between two or more consenting adults who are not causing harm to anyone. Sapiosexual is a term that I learned from this site, followed only by the ethical slut. I also agree with JN's assertion that restricting sexual activity, in any form by any religion or spirituality, is a form of control. Once you start convincing people that they must fight their inner desires, you own them. Who is less harmful? The person that hides their desires in a dark room where they seethe and simmer about it, or the person that embraces their desires and understands them? I'm sure there's plenty of anecdotal historical evidence to back up this claim, I'm just too lazy and disinterested to actually gather the proof. Love the topic and your take. Yes, you'll notice that a lot of would-be controlling entities, whether religions or governments, often start with trying to control sexual urges. Control a primal urge and you've broken the individual. Sad, really. Good comment. Thank you! Stop in, read, and offer comments at my "swinging as seen in the media" blog, "Confessions of a Lifestyle Man" humorlife, which is also the home of the monthly virtual symposium. New post: The Virtual Symposium Returns Lets Pick A Topic
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I'm a Buddhist now! Stop in, read, and offer comments at my "swinging as seen in the media" blog, "Confessions of a Lifestyle Man" humorlife, which is also the home of the monthly virtual symposium. New post: The Virtual Symposium Returns Lets Pick A Topic
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Bonjour Humorlife Dans ma prime jeunesse . Quand nous n'avions pas encore inventé les dieux . Nous baisions comme des bonobos . Nous vénérions les femmes qui nous donnaient des enfants en nous demandant comment elles avaient fait . ♥ Bisou ♥ Poton ♥ Annie ♥ Hello Humorlife In my youth, when we had not yet invented the gods we fucked like bonobos, we venerate women who gave us kids asking us how they had done. ♥ Kiss ♥ Annie ♥ The bonobos really have it together, when it comes to sex.... don't necessarily mean the fucking for dominance part, but certainly the unrestrained action... and come to think of it, how DO women give us kids? Votre jeunesse sonne comme une période de temps assez sain d'esprit ... et j'apprciate tous les dessins sur les murs de la grotte que vous avez laissé pour nous de profiter! Les bonobos ont vraiment ensemble, en ce qui concerne le sexe .... ne signifie pas nécessairement la baise pour une partie de la domination, mais certainement l'action effrénée ... et viennent à penser, comment les femmes nous donnent des enfants? Stop in, read, and offer comments at my "swinging as seen in the media" blog, "Confessions of a Lifestyle Man" humorlife, which is also the home of the monthly virtual symposium. New post: The Virtual Symposium Returns Lets Pick A Topic
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This is a wonderful post, and the discussion going on in the comments is quite stimulating. I don't think I can add much except to say that there is much to be said for buddhism, particularly zen, and as always, so much depends on interpretation doesn't it? I agree with annie - the bonobos have the right of it, and wouldn't the world be a better place if we all took their example.
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The blog post I referenced jumped into my hand at the last possible minute -- I was afraid I was going to have to do a post on swing clubs called "Obsessions," which would have been dangerously close to the one I did two months ago on clubs called "Secrets." I'm glad I found this! And yes, you may not be a swinger, but you are definitely a libertine... you go, girl! (And of course I'm very flattered that I offered brain food...) Stop in, read, and offer comments at my "swinging as seen in the media" blog, "Confessions of a Lifestyle Man" humorlife, which is also the home of the monthly virtual symposium. New post: The Virtual Symposium Returns Lets Pick A Topic
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This is a wonderful post, and the discussion going on in the comments is quite stimulating. I don't think I can add much except to say that there is much to be said for buddhism, particularly zen, and as always, so much depends on interpretation doesn't it? I agree with annie - the bonobos have the right of it, and wouldn't the world be a better place if we all took their example. But of course they serve my purposes, so I'm not going to disagree with them... Monkeys for everyone! Stop in, read, and offer comments at my "swinging as seen in the media" blog, "Confessions of a Lifestyle Man" humorlife, which is also the home of the monthly virtual symposium. New post: The Virtual Symposium Returns Lets Pick A Topic
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Another brilliant post, thanks for sharing and clarifying that for us..
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Another brilliant post, thanks for sharing and clarifying that for us.. Stop in, read, and offer comments at my "swinging as seen in the media" blog, "Confessions of a Lifestyle Man" humorlife, which is also the home of the monthly virtual symposium. New post: The Virtual Symposium Returns Lets Pick A Topic
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Second one done... GB does OBSESSION Thanks! Thoughts from the Garden...
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Second one done... GB does OBSESSION Thanks! Stop in, read, and offer comments at my "swinging as seen in the media" blog, "Confessions of a Lifestyle Man" humorlife, which is also the home of the monthly virtual symposium. New post: The Virtual Symposium Returns Lets Pick A Topic
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That phrase leaped from my brain as I was writing the piece... and as soon as it did, I knew there was no force in Heaven or on Earth that would keep me from using it. (Most editors would say that it falls under Samuel Johnson's rule "'Read over your compositions, and where ever you meet with a passage which you think is particularly fine, strike it out." Not striking it out is what makes blogs fun.) Fever? Hope you're feeling better soon! Stop in, read, and offer comments at my "swinging as seen in the media" blog, "Confessions of a Lifestyle Man" humorlife, which is also the home of the monthly virtual symposium. New post: The Virtual Symposium Returns Lets Pick A Topic
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In short, if you meet the Buddha on the road, blow him. Fun and informative post, Humorlife. And most probably your "blow the Buddha" suggestion is tongue in cheek. Even so, I'm reminded of Sheldon Kopp's provocative book on self-knowledge: If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him Kopp's point being that there is no such person as Buddha . . . Buddha being a metaphor for an all-knowing, all-wisdom, all-the-time enlightened guru, sage or teacher. So if you meet someone who purports to be Buddha, then they are a fraud. If they don't claim to be Buddha but you somehow still think they are . . . well . . . you're mistaken! Killing the Buddha means looking deeply within yourself - accepting both full freedom and full responsibility. WE are the experts in the journey of our own lives - which can be a pretty frightening realization for some people, who may not feel expert in anything, much less in knowing how to live their lives. "There is no guru and we are no-one's disciples" sorta calls bullshit on blaming our problems or frustrations on others. I was raised by devout Christian parents - who I respect tremendously. But I just don't believe that God cares who (or how many) we have sex with. So absolutely love thy neighbour and practice the Golden Rule. But both those prescriptions are silent on the details of swinging. I think so anyway. Closing on the same topic I began with . . . sure, have sex with the Buddha along the road if that seems like fun and a good idea to both of you. Just don't pretend that s/he is really Buddha. We must decide for ourselves how to be.
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In short, if you meet the Buddha on the road, blow him. Fun and informative post, Humorlife. And most probably your "blow the Buddha" suggestion is tongue in cheek. Even so, I'm reminded of Sheldon Kopp's provocative book on self-knowledge: If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him Kopp's point being that there is no such person as Buddha . . . Buddha being a metaphor for an all-knowing, all-wisdom, all-the-time enlightened guru, sage or teacher. So if you meet someone who purports to be Buddha, then they are a fraud. If they don't claim to be Buddha but you somehow still think they are . . . well . . . you're mistaken! Killing the Buddha means looking deeply within yourself - accepting both full freedom and full responsibility. WE are the experts in the journey of our own lives - which can be a pretty frightening realization for some people, who may not feel expert in anything, much less in knowing how to live their lives. "There is no guru and we are no-one's disciples" sorta calls bullshit on blaming our problems or frustrations on others. I was raised by devout Christian parents - who I respect tremendously. But I just don't believe that God cares who (or how many) we have sex with. So absolutely love thy neighbour and practice the Golden Rule. But both those prescriptions are silent on the details of swinging. I think so anyway. Closing on the same topic I began with . . . sure, have sex with the Buddha along the road if that seems like fun and a good idea to both of you. Just don't pretend that s/he is really Buddha. We must decide for ourselves how to be. I'd argue that the two prescriptions of Buddhism you cite do indeed relate to swinging. Specifically cited? No. But there is a lot of room for ethical behavior, whether as a single swinger or as part of a couple (or more). And yes, your observations on the Buddha nature, as opposed to an actual Buddha, are spot on. Either we are all (aspiring) Buddhas, or none of us are. Stop in, read, and offer comments at my "swinging as seen in the media" blog, "Confessions of a Lifestyle Man" humorlife, which is also the home of the monthly virtual symposium. New post: The Virtual Symposium Returns Lets Pick A Topic
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I practice Buddhism to one degree or another. I will say that this post had me in its thrall. I laughed so hard at some lines I ...well best not to say. thanks for a thoroughly addictive post. You cannot conceive the many without the one.
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For some unknown reason, Buddha has been on 'my road' for the last couples of weeks... First I was invited by a friend to attend he and his band gig at a restaurant named 'The Greedy Buddha'... go figure (greedy or not I had a great time...lol) A few days later, after shearing a very unpleasant work episode with a friend, she advised me to read about 'Buddha detachment' ... fair enough Over the weekend while reading a friend's blog, her last lines were - 'Read up on the Buddhist concept of the monkey mind.' Last but not not least, I found your post based on the Wisdom Quarterly: American Buddhist Journal blog...( Nice post by the way ) According to Buddha or not here's what I have learnt: - Detachment is not that you should own nothing. But that nothing should own you. - 'Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense' - Buddha - Learn to silence the chatter, and find the clear, calm voice of reason. We’ve all got one of those voices, but mine takes a bunch of vacations…lol - In short, Buddha has been on my road, and yes I'm trying to blow him, as much as to rock the bed with that beautiful-bellied bastard... P.S. Apologies for using your post to share my latest Buddha experiences and unwind... {=} Between Heaven & Hell - My Kingdom Guestbook and Messages box
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I practice Buddhism to one degree or another. I will say that this post had me in its thrall. I laughed so hard at some lines I ...well best not to say. thanks for a thoroughly addictive post. Would welcome your perspective on the issue as a one-degree-or-another Buddhist... Stop in, read, and offer comments at my "swinging as seen in the media" blog, "Confessions of a Lifestyle Man" humorlife, which is also the home of the monthly virtual symposium. New post: The Virtual Symposium Returns Lets Pick A Topic
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For some unknown reason, Buddha has been on 'my road' for the last couples of weeks... First I was invited by a friend to attend he and his band gig at a restaurant named 'The Greedy Buddha'... go figure (greedy or not I had a great time...lol) A few days later, after shearing a very unpleasant work episode with a friend, she advised me to read about 'Buddha detachment' ... fair enough Over the weekend while reading a friend's blog, her last lines were - 'Read up on the Buddhist concept of the monkey mind.' Last but not not least, I found your post based on the Wisdom Quarterly: American Buddhist Journal blog...( Nice post by the way ) According to Buddha or not here's what I have learnt: - Detachment is not that you should own nothing. But that nothing should own you. - 'Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense' - Buddha - Learn to silence the chatter, and find the clear, calm voice of reason. We’ve all got one of those voices, but mine takes a bunch of vacations…lol - In short, Buddha has been on my road, and yes I'm trying to blow him, as much as to rock the bed with that beautiful-bellied bastard... P.S. Apologies for using your post to share my latest Buddha experiences and unwind... {=} Clearly the universe is trying to tell you something... perhaps even beyond "be calm and look past your current issues." Any idea what that something is? I'm delighted you liked the post, and if you have any further experiences with that beautiful-bellied bastard, please come back and share 'em. Stop in, read, and offer comments at my "swinging as seen in the media" blog, "Confessions of a Lifestyle Man" humorlife, which is also the home of the monthly virtual symposium. New post: The Virtual Symposium Returns Lets Pick A Topic
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Bonne argumentation. Décidément, le sexe pose un problème à toutes les religions. Good argument. Certainly, sex is a problem for all religions. Sommaire Et la souffrance vgtale L'être idéal ? Un ange dévasté par l'humour. E.M. Cioran
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